Dog stopping: Finding a Piezo buzzer/transducer? - Electronic Circuits Projects Diagrams Free

DigiTan · 5th March 2007, 10:17 PM

I'm searching for a very loud and compact piezo buzzer to use for a current project.

The resonant frequency needs to be in the range of 16kHz to 22kHz, but the only ones I found fitting that description have 106dB @ 30cm sound pressure or lower, and I was hoping for 120dB and up. I checked digikey, mouser, and currently allied but no luck. Does anyone know of a place that specializes in loud, borderline-ultrasonic piezos?

audioguru · 6th March 2007, 01:05 AM

Companies don't make powerful ultrasonic transducers that are only useful for scaring dogs. They make more popular and more important stuff.

Ultrasonic transducers are fragile so can't operate at high power. Use hundreds of them.

DigiTan · 6th March 2007, 01:41 AM

You might want let the people who built this one, this one, and this one in on that secret. If a specialized peizo isn't available, I want to try using an audible one outside its resonant frequency. I know it wastes energy, but until I can find a datasheet with the piezo's transfer function I can only guess what the loss is. The search continues..

Torben · 6th March 2007, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DigiTan

I'm searching for a very loud and compact piezo buzzer to use for a current project.

The resonant frequency needs to be in the range of 16kHz to 22kHz, but the only ones I found fitting that description have 106dB @ 30cm sound pressure or lower, and I was hoping for 120dB and up. I checked digikey, mouser, and currently allied but no luck. Does anyone know of a place that specializes in loud, borderline-ultrasonic piezos?

Check out the parts lists for some of the sound generator projects from the Evil Genius books: http://www.amazing1.com/evil_genius.htm

They have some high-power transducers which I believe are made specially for Information Unlimited by Motran, about which I know pretty much nothing else except that they also make high-temperature speakers for use in vehicle engines for sound control.

The first Evil Genius book actually has plans for some stuff which might work for you out of the box; pain field generators and sonic shock waves etc. I think you can buy the plans, the kit, the kit assembled for you, or the piezo transducer by itself. The piezo I'm looking at is $14.95 US.

Good luck!

Torben

audioguru · 6th March 2007, 01:58 AM

Murata make many ultrasonic piezo transducers. A few would scare a dog if they are as close as in the picture. The dog is afraid of being hit with it.

Years ago, Motorola made a piezo horn tweeter for very bad sounding cheap speakers. I called it "a whistle, not a tweeter". It worked at frequencies up to about 25kHz but the response was all over the place, like a whistle. You could feed one 22kHz and its output would be 11kHz. Weird.

chemelec · 6th March 2007, 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DigiTan

I'm searching for a very loud and compact piezo buzzer to use for a current project.

The resonant frequency needs to be in the range of 16kHz to 22kHz, but the only ones I found fitting that description have 106dB @ 30cm sound pressure or lower, and I was hoping for 120dB and up. I checked digikey, mouser, and currently allied but no luck. Does anyone know of a place that specializes in loud, borderline-ultrasonic piezos?

You Might try using a Pizo Tweeter, Aimed into a Good Parabloic Dish, thats than Aimed at the Dog.

audioguru · 6th March 2007, 03:04 AM

Ha, ha. It will scare away the parabolic dishes that come to piss on your lawn.

on1aag · 6th March 2007, 03:51 AM

Why invent something that is already invented. This will stop all
dogs, cats and other domestic cattle, even annoying neighbours.

http://www.fnherstal.com/html/Index.htm

And if this isn't enough they've got bigger !

on1aag.

Sceadwian · 6th March 2007, 04:18 AM

Every extra transducer you use increases your effective output 3db's doesn't it? Just use 5 of the ones you're looking at. Would allow you to phase steer the signal if you wanted as well.

audioguru · 6th March 2007, 04:28 AM

Two transducers are 3dB louder than one. Four transducers are 3dB louder than two. Eight transducers are 3dB louder than four. So eight transducers are less than double the loudness. Use hundreds of them.

You must select a frequency that the transducers work well at. How? Ask the dogs.
You must get to within only 30cm from the dogs because these transducers are wimpy little things.

Papabravo · 6th March 2007, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DigiTan

I'm searching for a very loud and compact piezo buzzer to use for a current project.

The resonant frequency needs to be in the range of 16kHz to 22kHz, but the only ones I found fitting that description have 106dB @ 30cm sound pressure or lower, and I was hoping for 120dB and up. I checked digikey, mouser, and currently allied but no luck. Does anyone know of a place that specializes in loud, borderline-ultrasonic piezos?

I have nothing but contempt for a person that would want to do this to an animal. You should be ashamed of yourself.

DigiTan · 6th March 2007, 05:33 PM

Due to size restrictions, I can only use 1 transducer/tweeter. I'll keep the +3db option in mind though. It makes me wonder if I should spring for the $25 on ebay for a complete circuit, pop out the transducer, and just mod the living daylights out of it.

Murata does sound vaguley familar though and I'm checking out their product line.

On a similar topic, I'm looking for a super-efficient multivibrator to replace a 555 chip in this one. Preferably a surface-mount device. Is the CMOS equivalent of that chip any good?

audioguru · 6th March 2007, 05:47 PM

An ordinary 555 has a max output current of 200ma. A Cmos 555 can source (output high) only 10mA and can sink (output low) only 50ma.

An ordinary 555 has a minimum supply voltage of 4.5V. A Cmos 555 is guaranteed to work with a supply voltage as low as 1.5V.

An ordinary 555 has a supply current of about 3mA at 5V. A Cmos 555 has a supply current of 100ua at 5V.

The piezo transducer has a fairly high capacitance that will need a fairly high current to charge and discharge at 25kHz.

Papabravo · 6th March 2007, 06:00 PM

Yes but I do, and that's the difference between you and me.

DigiTan · 6th March 2007, 06:46 PM

Aw, well aren't you the little altruist? Unfortunately you're no mod, so BTFU and quit acting like one.

@audio: I guess 555 CMOS will work then. I have a nice switching PMOS transistor I can use for an inverter on the output. So since the piezo has high capacitance, will I be needing a coil on the output of this inverter?

5th March 2007, 10:17 PM
DigiTan Experienced Member	Dog stopping: Finding a Piezo buzzer/transducer? I'm searching for a very loud and compact piezo buzzer to use for a current project. The resonant frequency needs to be in the range of 16kHz to 22kHz, but the only ones I found fitting that description have 106dB @ 30cm sound pressure or lower, and I was hoping for 120dB and up. I checked digikey, mouser, and currently allied but no luck. Does anyone know of a place that specializes in loud, borderline-ultrasonic piezos? __________________ Last edited by NSA’s Echelon System: Today at 12:41 AM. * AVR Projects * Robot War [for TI graphing calcs] * Robot War TI footage

6th March 2007, 01:05 AM
audioguru Experienced Member	Companies don't make powerful ultrasonic transducers that are only useful for scaring dogs. They make more popular and more important stuff. Ultrasonic transducers are fragile so can't operate at high power. Use hundreds of them. __________________ Uncle $crooge

6th March 2007, 01:41 AM
DigiTan Experienced Member	You might want let the people who built this one, this one, and this one in on that secret. If a specialized peizo isn't available, I want to try using an audible one outside its resonant frequency. I know it wastes energy, but until I can find a datasheet with the piezo's transfer function I can only guess what the loss is. The search continues.. __________________ Last edited by NSA’s Echelon System: Today at 12:41 AM. * AVR Projects * Robot War [for TI graphing calcs] * Robot War TI footage

6th March 2007, 01:58 AM
audioguru Experienced Member	Murata make many ultrasonic piezo transducers. A few would scare a dog if they are as close as in the picture. The dog is afraid of being hit with it. Years ago, Motorola made a piezo horn tweeter for very bad sounding cheap speakers. I called it "a whistle, not a tweeter". It worked at frequencies up to about 25kHz but the response was all over the place, like a whistle. You could feed one 22kHz and its output would be 11kHz. Weird. __________________ Uncle $crooge

6th March 2007, 03:04 AM
audioguru Experienced Member	Ha, ha. It will scare away the parabolic dishes that come to piss on your lawn. __________________ Uncle $crooge

6th March 2007, 03:51 AM
on1aag Experienced Member	Dog repeller. Why invent something that is already invented. This will stop all dogs, cats and other domestic cattle, even annoying neighbours. http://www.fnherstal.com/html/Index.htm And if this isn't enough they've got bigger ! on1aag.

6th March 2007, 04:18 AM
Sceadwian Experienced Member	Every extra transducer you use increases your effective output 3db's doesn't it? Just use 5 of the ones you're looking at. Would allow you to phase steer the signal if you wanted as well. __________________ Curiosity killed the cat. That's why they have nine lives.

6th March 2007, 04:28 AM
audioguru Experienced Member	Two transducers are 3dB louder than one. Four transducers are 3dB louder than two. Eight transducers are 3dB louder than four. So eight transducers are less than double the loudness. Use hundreds of them. You must select a frequency that the transducers work well at. How? Ask the dogs. You must get to within only 30cm from the dogs because these transducers are wimpy little things. __________________ Uncle $crooge

6th March 2007, 05:33 PM
DigiTan Experienced Member	Due to size restrictions, I can only use 1 transducer/tweeter. I'll keep the +3db option in mind though. It makes me wonder if I should spring for the $25 on ebay for a complete circuit, pop out the transducer, and just mod the living daylights out of it. Murata does sound vaguley familar though and I'm checking out their product line. On a similar topic, I'm looking for a super-efficient multivibrator to replace a 555 chip in this one. Preferably a surface-mount device. Is the CMOS equivalent of that chip any good? __________________ Last edited by NSA’s Echelon System: Today at 12:41 AM. * AVR Projects * Robot War [for TI graphing calcs] * Robot War TI footage

6th March 2007, 05:47 PM
audioguru Experienced Member	An ordinary 555 has a max output current of 200ma. A Cmos 555 can source (output high) only 10mA and can sink (output low) only 50ma. An ordinary 555 has a minimum supply voltage of 4.5V. A Cmos 555 is guaranteed to work with a supply voltage as low as 1.5V. An ordinary 555 has a supply current of about 3mA at 5V. A Cmos 555 has a supply current of 100ua at 5V. The piezo transducer has a fairly high capacitance that will need a fairly high current to charge and discharge at 25kHz. __________________ Uncle $crooge

6th March 2007, 06:00 PM
Papabravo Experienced Member	Yes but I do, and that's the difference between you and me.

6th March 2007, 06:46 PM
DigiTan Experienced Member	Aw, well aren't you the little altruist? Unfortunately you're no mod, so BTFU and quit acting like one. @audio: I guess 555 CMOS will work then. I have a nice switching PMOS transistor I can use for an inverter on the output. So since the piezo has high capacitance, will I be needing a coil on the output of this inverter? __________________ Last edited by NSA’s Echelon System: Today at 12:41 AM. * AVR Projects * Robot War [for TI graphing calcs] * Robot War TI footage